Doctors are talking more and more about side gig income outside of their typical W2 or place of employment. This income can be a great boon in your path toward financial independence, or it can be fraught with a lot of mistakes. If you want to figure out the difference. Keep listening, come to the money meets medicine podcast, where we talk about the personal finance topics you wish you had learned in medical school. I'm your host and founder of the physician philosopher Jimmy Turner. And here's your cohost who's number one way to cut down stress is to go get a Manny petty Ryan Inman.

Awesome. I love it. It's true though. It's totally true. I went and had my first one. It was done by a five-year-old. It was awesome. She said, daddy, your nails need something. And I was like, what do they need? She goes, they need Polish. Okay. They need love like cool. So she did up my nails, my hands and feet. It felt very weird. I know all the females are probably like, he's crazy, but I've never had anything on my nails. So after dried, I felt the difference and it felt very weird. I don't know. It was kind of weirded me out, but over like, I don't know, maybe 48 hours. Cause it's kid polished. Like it doesn't stay on at least that well, or that long, it started to chip off. And my daughter's like, Hey daddy, why is the Polish coming off? I said, oh honey, it just falling off.

And she goes, if you need me to fix it, I'm here for you. Okay. Right. Works. That's a funny one. Do you tell Jimmy one thing and he blasted for you the next episode. That's awesome. There are no secrets among friends. Yeah. And we're all friends here. We love all of you. Hopefully this has been fun and engaging and we're blending personal finance along with behavioral and the relationship with money and helping you guys increase your financial acumen and have a little fun while we're doing it. So thank you so much for being here. We're going to talk all about side gig income. If you will, what to do with it, how to earn it things to look out for what to avoid really, really excited to jump in. But before we get into today's show a quick message from today's sponsor, which is physician financial services.

No, that is not my business. Mine is physician while services. This is physician financial services, and that is a business as widely recognized in the physician community for disability and term insurance and it's run and owned and operated by Larry Keller. Who's a CFP and he's been in the insurance and financial services industry since 1990. So he's old school. I love Larry unlike medicine, which has a very standardized path that physicians take to gain their education and training and experience to get the board certifications, the insurance and our financial industry doesn't really have that. Larry always says, while you may not be the doctor's first phone call regarding their insurance needs, he's often there last, Larry's a fantastic guy. We love working with Larry and you can check them out by going to doctor podcast, network.com/ Larry Keller. That's L a R R Y K E L L E R all one word. And of course like we always do. The link is in the description of the show. You're listening to us in right now. So Jimmy, as we're going to discuss the there's obviously pros and cons with everything, but the benefits of side income. Why don't we give some examples to start of what side gigs actually could a physician take?

Yeah, I think these are really important actually. And I used to, I actually remember being asked. I was at the white coat investor conference and Jim asked on a panel is, do you think that every doctor should have a side gig because obviously all of us do and many other doctors do and it's getting bigger and bigger. And at the time I was like, well, I think that anybody could benefit from one, but I don't know that everyone needs one and more than I exist in this space. The more I realized just how much of a benefit this could be and how it's so broad that really anybody could get started in this. So it really could be a variety of things, real estate or that's passive real estate and investing in syndications or actively managing doors locums. So doing more work in medicine, like that's technically a side gig.

If it's not for your employer, you could be doing locums on the side for someone else or moonlighting. Sometimes we call that in medicine, when we're in training, you can still do that locally as an attending. And then there's online surveys, chart reviews, medical malpractice work. And then of course my favorite, which is having an online business, which by the way, is the same side gig that all the people that you listen to and read have. So it really is an interesting thing because I go to that all the time. People are like, oh, I love real estate. And I'm like, Hey, I think real estate is great. I've got nothing wrong with real estate. But all the people talking about real estate, they have an online business just want to point that out. And so it's an important thing, but it can be any of these things.

It could be real estate, it could be locums. It could be online surveys. Everybody could benefit from one though in terms of the cashflow that it could provide. Now, this really does beg the question and this is the follow-up question. Everyone's yeah, but why would a busy doctor pursue income outside of medicine when they can just work an extra shift? If I can make an extra one to $2,000 working an extra shift, why in the world would I spend my time on a busy side gig as a physician? And I think that is a very fair and excellent question. So I figured we talked about some of the benefits today of side gig income and really kind of hash it out.

Yeah. I get asked that question too, like, Hey, should I, you know, take on an extra role? Should I do some extra shifts? I have a client is surgeon in the air force, super cool guy. He has some killer stories too, but one of the things that he does, and I won't say the name because I know it's still a small thing and he's hurting quite a bit of money for it, but he basically reviews surgeries and critiques them as an attending for many years. And it's all through a portal and a system it's all anonymous. So they obviously value who he is and there's other attendings that are doing it, but they'll upload. And essentially they're going to, Hey, you, instead of doing this, you could have done that or, Hey, this was good when you did X, Y, Z, or whatever. And he's making about $2,500 a month in his boxers at night for about two hours, four nights, three, four nights a week.

And he's like, why would anyone not do this? This is insane. I'm like some people like sleep one and two, not everyone's able to do this. Like, you know, a pediatrician can't log in and critique a surgery. So you're very specialized in what you're doing. And there's things out there for everyone, whether it's very subspecialty specific, it could be just general. It could be nothing to do with medicine. And I think it's a really good point to bring up about real estate. Real estate can be absolutely passive in the sense of I'm going to go buy a REIT through my 401k IRA and my taxable account. You have real estate exposure, but that's not a side gig. That's not a business. That's not what we're really referring to, but I want to lump everything else into real estate into it is now a business. Whether you're buying single family rentals, you're investing in a bunch of syndications, your fix and flipping all of that actually has work attached to it.

Some of it will be more passive than others, but there's tons and tons of benefits to side gig income. And even your spouse is not a physician and they're working a W2 job and gets stuck in the rat race. You hear all the time, people are just working that desk job or whatever it may be. They're always looking for things outside. Doctors are no different. So yes, you can go work an extra shift and definitely put your medical degree to use. But a lot of you are feeling some sort of burnout or just overworking the same thing and want something in a different change of pace. So I like the direction of a side gig and the other little piece Jimmy I'll add in before we jump into all the benefits is that most of the time online, you're going to hear people. When you talk about personal finance, they're talking about cutting your expenses, right?

If you just did a budget, you hear me talk about budget all the time. It's just a budget. You could cut this, you can cut that. And if you stop drinking that Starbucks drink, you'll retire five years earlier, whatever crap they're saying. Whereas on the other end, if he earned an extra thousand dollars a month, it would be way better. And you'd still have all the fun stuff that you're doing and be excited and everything. So being able to have an extra sort of income that would come in is I think, beneficial to everyone regardless of your physician or not. But having physicians specifically look at having extort income, there's a ton of benefits. So Jimmy, where would you like to start with those benefits before we jump in? I think it's really cool that you just mentioned both were jumping in. No, you gotta wait. You gotta hold your horses. Miss homo, man, I had three cups of coffee. Let's jump in. You're like ready

To go, got a handshake. So I think it's really cool. You mentioned both those things. And the reason being that the financial freedom bootcamp that I just had last week, the replay is still on the physician philosopher Facebook group. But the two things we touched on day one was on cashflow and on the expensive side of the equation and on day two is on income. And that's exactly why I talk about both is because I think doing both provides an immense amount of power for you, but cashflow increasing it, like anyone that listens to Ryan and I for the last, what year and a half, two years now knows that Ryan's big budgeter. And I hate budgeting. Budgeting is not my friend. I have never liked it. And so I've just earned enough money that I never even need to think about it. Like we always have more money coming in.

It's a bad way to do it, but it's okay. I still love you all be okay. Such a bad way. Hold on. Actually, I'm going to unpack that for a second. Do you plan out your business expense?

All right. I need to add some caveats here cause Ryan's gonna jump down my throat. So I look at my credit card expenses each month. So I do more than it sounds like. And I do make sure any recurring expenses are in check. And I do go through things to make sure there's not any big expenses that are going to sink my ship. And I teach other people

To do same, hold some extra money in case an expense comes up that you didn't expect in your business.

We have three to six months of living expenses, both in the business

And yeah. Okay. So you have an emergency fund in your business and personal and you forecast what you're about to spend in your business, correct? Or what you could spend, whether it's this month or within a few months. And you're planning ahead in that sense. So you have a budget, sorry about to think about it. Planning it's cashflow planning, but that's the scene a budget is today looking backwards and cashflow Plains today looking forwards like businesses do both. You've done both. You are a budget or my friend, if anyone

Out there hasn't noticed this is Ryan's button and I

Love to push it. Yeah. Well it's also at the same time though, that I want everyone to know that you are budgeting. Like you actually, you say you don't, but you do budget. Everyone should budget. I don't care. If you make a million dollars a year, I have clients that make a million dollars a year and we still budget. Now granted their budget is what I spent is one line item where everything doesn't matter if it's entertainment or groceries or whatever, like goes into one line item. And the next 15 line items are, where are we going to allocate the extra $50,000 of income that comes in every month? That's still a budget. I'll give you this

One. Right? I'll let you go. I'm a forest budgeter. And you're a trees budgeter. I see the big picture. And you'd like to pick out the trees.

I do both. You ain't see my budget friend. I'm just giving you a hard time and we're going to sabotage this entire show. All right. Yes we are. All right, keep going. Benefits. Can we start

Out with that question? Right? Why would a busy doctor have a side gate? And I think that honestly, I'll save you the work doctor, having a bunch of clients, alpha coaching experience and talking to a bunch of other doctors that are started side gigs. It really comes down to one thing. And that is freedom of a lot of things. Freedom of your time, freedom of your schedule. It's all about freedom. That's why people step into entrepreneurship when you're a physician earning a good income. And really the big reason why is because like you want autonomy and being a business owner provides loads of it. So I think this is the number one reason that busy doctors go into this and it does provide cash lots out of medicine. So not only are you the boss in your business, which is very refreshing. If you don't have that experience in medicine, I might add.

But in addition to that cashflow that we've been talking about all of that income that you're generating outside of medicine, every single one of those dollars is like the soldier that steps out of the battlefield and fights for you. So you don't have to earn that dollar in medicine. And that is a really powerful thing because the more soldiers that you get out there, you start winning that war. And like you honestly, medicine becomes optional. It becomes something that you do cause you want to not because you have to. And that really is I think a powerful thing and Ryan's laughing. You can't see it, but I can see it. I'm dying over here. Ryan's laughing at my soldier. Now I

Am because what do you do as a general? You don't just be like, all right, soldiers go somewhere in that direction and die, right? No, you have a strategic plan, which could be, I don't know, for your dollar soldiers called a budget. You're not gonna let us go. No. What other benefits? Because autonomy is a big thing and not everyone's cut out to be an entrepreneur and run a whole business and have your full income derived off of it. And look, we have eight, nine employees. Now. That's a big responsibility that I personally have and my partner, Casey, we feel very responsible to them. We want to make sure, obviously they're well taken care of as well as the business, but we're not saying that here. We're saying you could literally do a one man or one woman shop and have still some autonomy and run a very small but lucrative side business. I love that is the number one thing.

Hey everyone, this is Jimmy real quick. Before I get back to making fun of Ryan some more, do you want to learn how to master your money so that you can practice medicine because you want to, and not because you have to come join me for the three pillars to physician freedom masterclass, which I'll be hosting on June 8th, 10th, and 12th. These are masterclasses designed to help you achieve the freedom you're looking for. So you can claim your seat by going to the physician, philosopher.com/three pillars, or by clicking the link in the description of the show. I'll see you there. Now back to the show, I think this is important. I think that there's a distinction between an entrepreneur and a business owner because an entrepreneur, if you look up the definition, basically it says that that is someone that is willing to take above ordinary risk in order to run a business venture that they're trying to start as opposed to a business owner, like you are taking risk, but it could be something that is relatively stable, right?

Like you could be doing chart reviews, your medical malpractice work that is being paid by someone else. You still get to run your business, but you're not starting something off the ground and getting it going, building a new coaching business or online course or starting a blog or a podcast like those are entrepreneurial sort of stuff. So you can be a business owner. And that provides a lot of the benefits that being an entrepreneur does. It's just, everyone's got their DNA wired a little differently. I'm glad that you pointed out that not everybody's built to be an entrepreneur. I think that's

Smart. Yeah. I joke and say entrepreneurs or the crazy ones that work 80 hours. So we didn't have to work 40 hours for someone else.

Hilariously. That has been my story until recently, but that's so true. Most entrepreneurs crushed themselves. And so I think it's important to deal with that issue, but it's real. So I think another huge one, Ryan is your ability to write off expenses. And this is particularly true for W2 employees. If you're an employed doc in medicine, your group might give you like an academic fund. They might give you like a CME fund or a book fund or something like that, where you can spend money and then have it reimbursed. And so there's no make a cap on that. And it's only specific things that apply. Whereas if you own your business, then there's a ton of stuff that you can write off. Now it has to be specific to the business that you're doing. You can't go and buy a car and write it off. If you have no reason to write off a car in your business, but like I've written off a lot of stuff and it's stuff that's beneficial to me in addition to the business. And for example, Ryan, you pointed out this new DSLR camera that I'm recording on today. And for the first time folks, he's actually realizing what I look like because it's crystal clear and he's regretting his decision to podcast with me.

It is terrified. I'm just going to tell you, so Jimmy and I have been recording video and audio for a couple of months. Now we haven't released anything on the YouTube channel that's coming and that you will all of a sudden see a massive upgrade in Jimmy's camera. My background still looks terrible. Jimmy's got this whole like super nice professional. He must be a doctor set up. I'm over here with like chairs in the background. It looks terrible. His video just got way nicer and now it's terrifying. So you're welcome that it's audio only right now. That's right. And

I paid that camera off using the business money, this podcast room that I'm sitting in costs like eight or $10,000 to build. I've used my business money to use that because this entire room is used only literally for my business. And so there's some really cool things and that includes coaching and consulting, right? So like if you get business coaching, like I've written off business coaching as an expense because it literally helps grow my business. And so like, there are so many neat things that you can write off that you're paying post-tax dollars for right now, like some of my internet, I can't have an online business without an internet. There are so many things that you can write off in a business that as a W2 employee, you have no access to. So everyone loves talking about saving on taxes and the ability for real estate to allow you to do that. And you're to discount passive or active income in that field or outside of it. If you have reps, very few people talk about the fact like you can already save taxes on a lot of stuff. If you are a business owner, like just a business owner without any of that fancy stuff, huge

Benefit. I completely agree. And I can talk a little bit about some of the business stuff that I've written off and done in the office that I have in my backyard that we built that we joke it is technically a shed it's 10 feet by 12 feet by 10 feet. Tall has its own electrical door and a window. It's super nice. Has a little AC unit that a buddy of mine was super handy and installed into it. All of that was written off directly against my income on financial residency and physician while services, because this is the whole sole use of it. I was chuckling as Jimmy's talking about this because keeping track of business expenses and forecasting, what you're doing again comes back to budgeting Jimmy and cashflow planning, but it's okay. I'll pretend that you don't budget still a year and a half later. You saying you don't budget

And now you're good. We're going to get into the business aspect of this. I think so. I believe in something called delegating. I know I'm not a detail oriented person. So I have this magical human being in my business. Her name is Kristen. She's my business manager, my chief operator.

It's not fair that you have Kristen. I will just,

She is literally my superpower. She also happens to be my sister for those you don't know. So she's awesome. I've known her for 35

Years. Oh, you have really well. That's crazy.

Yeah. It's crazy how that works when you're born and you have an older sister, she's the detail oriented person in my business. And I have that because I recognize I'm not a detail oriented person. And I did the same thing with my books. And actually you helped me out find somebody on the accounting side for all of that. And they run my books too. They do a fantastic job, John McCarthy and their team there, Kelly big shout out to them, but they helped me run my books. And so like, they keep track of all my expenses and they asked me like, Hey, there's this one item. What is that? To hear that? I see that you use your business card to pay off. And I'm like, oh, that's this? You're like, oh, okay. They're fantastic position tax advisors. For those that don't know who I'm talking about, but they are the people that are on my books. So I still don't budget. Technically

He does. He'll eventually come around in about a year and he'll go, okay, everyone, I apologize. I budget. It'll be a big episode. It'll be Jimmy's reveal. But writing off business expenses is a huge deal. This is like tip of the iceberg stuff. We're not talking about. Hey, every couple of months you can rent your house out to your business and run an actual meeting there. And you can end up say, you're going to buy a nice dinner, but you discuss business over it. And metrics like there's things that you can technically write off. Hey, look, I need a new TV. That TV is going to belong in my office. All of a sudden you can write off a new TV, whatever it may be like everyone's different. Everyone needs things. If I wanted to, I don't have a TV subscription, but because I'm a financial advisor, I could say, Hey, look, I need, and this is hilarious because I don't listen to anyone at the talking heads on CNBC or something like that.

But I can make the argument to the IRS. If it ever came up, I had to go get a TV cable subscription for $50 a month. And the business is going to pay for 80% of that. Because when the market is open, I have that on to keep up with the trends in the market. We all know that's fluff and that they don't know what's happening. And you just stick with index funds. But from a business expense, if I wanted to write off the table subscription, I could justify a reason for that can justify my cell phone. I can justify part of my electric bill if work needs to be done. It's all being able to written off. Jimmy has mentioned some coaching or consulting in any of the people who might help you. If you need to build a website or you need some help on social media or whatever it is, all of that stuff can be written off. And who knows, maybe you end up showing a loss because you've ended up pushing a bunch of expenses onto your business, but that might help offset future income coming down the board, or maybe allows you to put more money away. So there's additional investment areas that you can dump into. I think we maybe should dive into that. Jimmy.

I have to throw a caveat out here because I have not personally done this yet. And I have reasons for that. But when you make money in a business, one cool thing, and this is awesome for physicians is that you have potential to open up more investment space, that's tax advantaged. And so a lot of us like you're limited, like you might have a 401k or four through B plus a four 57 and then your HSA, you're back to a Roth and a lot of us stop there. So that's what you have. Those are your opportunities. And you might have other things available to you, but by and large people out there that they have those four or five things. So everything else has to go to a taxable or brokerage account after that. And which is not a bad problem to have, by the way, if you're saving a large amount of money, like fantastic.

But if you wanted more tax advantage space to lower your tax burden, while you're still saving money and you have a business, you can put a percentage of your money away into a solo 401k, or an individual 401k or a SEP IRA. And I'm going to mention both of them. Although if you ever hear anybody in the medical space, talk about this stuff, they will always tell you, or they often will tell you that a solo 401k is better than a SEP IRA. And the reason why I'll just get out there early is that most doctors that listen to this stuff in the space have heard of a backdoor, Roth IRA. Many of you are doing it every year. And if you have a SEP IRA that doesn't really allow you to do it in the same way, because you get hit with a per rider calculation.

And so you get hit with a fee or a fine, if you wanna think about it like that, because you have other IRA money. And so if you're going to open space as a business owner, you want to do a solo 401k instead of a SEP IRA so that you can still do the backdoor Roth IRA without that pro-rata calculation. And so I want to throw that idea out there, but because we get tons and tons of questions like now I can just send the link to this podcast and say, Hey, refer to a minute, whatever 22 you'll know what we're talking about, but you do have to make money in your business in order to do this. So it's important to mention that. And one other really big things. And this question is what prompted this show for us? We got an email from a listener who said, Hey, I get paid a W2 and a 10 99 from the same employer.

And my accountant came back and said, I can't fill up the retirement space using both of those income from the same employer, basically, which is true. And it prompted this entire episode. So thank you for that email. You know who you are. I won't say any names because I don't know about your anonymity, but all that to say, you can take about 20% of your net earnings from self-employment and put it into a solo 401k. So what does that mean? If you put $19,500 into your 401k or your four 43 B at your W2 job, if you have a W2 that is from the employee side, in other words, not from the owner side, but from the employee side, there's still more space on the other side of the employer side that can be filled up to the, what is an hour and 57,000, I think 1550,

8,000. And if you're over 50, it's more than that, but it's 50. Okay. It's twenty-five percent. So

I've looked into this, actually. It's an interesting thing. I would actually encourage everyone to Google this because there are calculators out there that help you determine how much you can stuff inside of these things and your numbers are going to differ. So I think it's interesting. So I've heard 20% with a direct like net earnings from self-employment and 25% is a rough

Estimate, man, you're going to make me pull up the IRS thing. Hold

On, do it, man. Yeah, you pull it up. I'm talking about it. So the point is that you have an employer side and employee side, you've already put your $19,500 at your regular employer from the employee side. And so you cannot contribute anything else to the employee side, basically anywhere else, that 19 five, that your lab from the IRS has taken. What you can do is fill up some of the employer side, a certain percentage that Ryan's looking up on the IRS

Right now. I already know I'm just going to read it to you. That's

Cool. That is where you can put that percentage of your money. So if you earn a hundred thousand dollars rough back of the napkin math, you got to do the calculator because it includes a self-employment tax on there, but you can put apparently 25% or $25,000 away into a solo 401k. And that would be pre-tax money that would lower your tax burden for that year. And so this is a great thing about being a business owner. If you're a physician in a high income earner, and the other benefit that I didn't even mention that sitting in this is that if you make a certain amount of money and you're above the FICA limits, you don't have to pay any more the employee side of FICA taxes because you've already maxed them out at your W2 job. And so you just have to pay the self-employment taxes, the employer side. So you're saving yourself six, 7% and so tons and tons of benefits

To this. Yeah. I just popped up and literally type in solo, 401k, IRS it'll pop up. The IRS has website in the guideline. It says employer non-elective contributions up to 25% of the compensation is defined by the plan. So it is a 25% you can put basically in 19,500 a ways the employee, but you can not do that twice. So if you work for, let's say, I don't care. Some academic institution like wake and you put $19,500 away in your 401k or four, three B. I don't actually know what you have there. See me, it's a four oh three B and then you have your own side income. You can't be like, oh, I'm going to go now put another 19,005 way bummer. You can't do that. It's 19 five capped across everything that you do. But like Jimmy said, you can then turn around and say, well, my employee piece, you know, me being the employee, I can't do anything.

But me being the employer going to your same person can do something. You can do 25% as I just stated. And to be very clear, you don't have to do that in the year that you earn the income. So let's say that is absolutely true for 2020. I still have not filed all my returns. I extended. I paid whatever I need to pay because we need a lot more time to actually go through everything. And I know that at some point I can add money to this. So when I can do that, I'm going to go through, we calculate it. I use obviously our firm physician tax advisors to go through and do all this with John and Kelly. But then I can go and say for 2020, this would have been the employer side and basically add that money in. So it doesn't have to be done.

Then it has to be done by the time you file your taxes, which if you extend, it can be as late as October 15th of the following year. So you don't have to like stress into, into that, but you can't start it going like, oh, well I had income in 2020, and I'm in Tony's one. You can't just start it and go backwards. You have to actually have it open. And our listener who emailed us was talking about, cause this is going to come up. I worked for the employer and I got some 10 99 income. I can't do anything. Yes. Because it's common ownership. You work basically for the same entity. The same thing can happen when you are. Self-employed completely self-employed. So I own physician while services, I own financial residency. I have a 401k that's set up for myself and Casey and all my employees at PWS.

I actually can't go through and set up a solo 401k on fr and put more money in from the employer side because I have majority ownership in both. So I am blocked from doing that kind of stinks for me, but they do that. So you don't open up 15 different companies and earn just a little bit. And all of a sudden you're sheltering hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe millions of dollars, if you're a baller. And that's why they protect it that way, it is a thing. Unfortunately, myself included. I wish it wasn't a thing because I would be able to put a lot more money away because financial residency does have sponsorships for the podcast. Just like we do here on money meets medicine. And it would be nice to do something with that, but I can't. So we're,

We're, we're not gonna end the show on a downer because Ryan's in a bad mood. We're going to be,

I am a glass half full person. I love life. So hopefully

This show was beneficial and pointing out some of the really awesome things about having side gig income, 10 99, income owning your own business, maybe being an entrepreneur. If you've got that in your DNA, like Ryan and I do, then you're in good company. And I think that it's so important to really wrap your head around all of these opportunities, the opportunity for having some freedom, writing off these business expenses, additional investment space and saving a little bit on taxes too, on the self-employment tax. It's all part of the game. And so while it can be a lot of work and as Ryan likes to point out often, very few side gigs are passive. It is still in a lot of ways, totally worth it. And this is what freed my family up. So I can't talk about this stuff enough. It's one of my favorite things to coach people on. We're helping them build their own online business. And I hope that some of you that are listening step your feet into some sort of side gig income to increase that cash flow, provide some freedom for your family.

I want to end on a similar note that not everyone is meant to have a passive or active side gig, and maybe you are working and you're responsible for a ton of people. And your daily job is very demanding and you don't want to do this. That's okay. You can focus on the other end, which is how are you spending money and your expenses and limiting there. Some of you need to branch out and you have the time and the ability to do that and can focus on the income and the expense side. But it is totally fine. If any of these things that we're talking about don't fit you. You do not need all of this to succeed with your finances. This may accelerate. And I think it would, if you are successful at it, the amount of time and duration, it would take you to get from today to financial independence, but it is not required.

So I want to make sure that it is very clear. There's millions of people who don't have a side income that do become retired. It just maybe takes a little longer. And if you're okay with that awesome, don't, over-complicate it. We talk about keeping finances, simple, invest in index funds. Again, not financial advice hashtag don't Sue me, but the idea is to invest in that stuff and to learn about that. Don't try to actively time the market save what you can save. But if you are looking to accelerate financial independence to get out of medicine sooner to switch, we have a ton of physicians that are talking about, I love medicine. I love what I do. And it would be cool if I was financial independence so I could choose if I want to work or not, or so I could tell them, Hey, I don't want to take call, but I'll still work a 0.8 or whatever it is.

But we have a lot of people are like, I want to switch to public health. I want to use my skills and my ability. I want to do something different and not do what I'm currently doing, but I still want to stay working. And that's huge for a financial planning perspective because it doesn't mean, Hey, I hit financial independence, my income, a little spicket valve turns completely off and I've got nothing coming in. If you're earning who cares $50,000 and back to what our resident makes, that's still is $50,000 a cushion that you don't have to earn from your investments. And that means that you can maybe have a little bit less investments before you transition to that. And some of this may turn into a side hustle or a side gig, and that might allow you to speed up or to cut back or scale like Jimmy, I know you're one FTE now, what are you? I'll

Be 65, starting in July. I'll be working Thursdays and Fridays 48 weeks of the year.

Amazing is that that you are able to have scaled something that you love right in the businesses that you're creating and still be able to practice medicine, which you love. I do write and still are involved and you're not using it technically for financial independence to be like F it I'm out peace. Like you're using it to still do both things and prioritize both things. So I it's really neat, but again, not everyone has to do this and please don't fault yourself or beat yourself up over it of, oh, these guys are doing this. And then you know, this person's doing X, Y, Z. I need to do that. No, you don't have to, but think through it. What now, Jimmy,

I'll end the story with this analogy because I think it makes sense. Oh, look, we're out

Of time. Goodbye everyone. The way that doctors

Think everyone in medicine that's practiced medicine when they were a student and they go through the process of figuring out what they want to do. And even if you went into general surgery, you still got the same advice, which is you talk to somebody who didn't go into general surgery and oftentimes people who do, and they'll tell you one thing about it. They'll say, if you can be happy doing anything other than general surgery, you should do it. And the reason why is because general surgery is painful, it's a painful road for training. It can be painful afterwards. And so that's often the advice that's given and at least for entrepreneurship, I tell people the same thing. If you don't have to be an entrepreneur don't, but if you have it in your DNA and you can't help, but be an entrepreneur, don't fight that either. Like just, you just have to know what your personality is and really step into it or don't, and that's fine. And you can be a business owner without being an entrepreneur. Like we talked about earlier, or be none of the above and just sit back and enjoy the journey. All of those are acceptable. We love every single one of you, regardless of where you are in your journey that are listening to this show. But if you've got it in your DNA, you can fight it, but you're going to come along soon enough.

Yup. It took about 10 years for me to say, you know what? I need to branch off on my own Graham, not a physician. I'm just married to one, but my whole family is entrepreneurs. Like I was the first one to graduate college. And I did that with a couple of masters degrees too. And they're like, what are you doing? I'm like, oh, I want to learn. I love this. I love that. Got a job. And then when I ended up on my own there, like about time, I was like, oh, all right, didn't realize that you knew that already. And it took me a while to figure out. So if you're not there yet, and you haven't figured it out, no worries. But hopefully this sparks some thought and get you thinking about what could be and if this is right for you and all that kind of good stuff.

So thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate you guys make sure that we hit today's sponsor again. So thank you, Larry Keller so much for sponsoring today's show. If you guys are interested in getting disability or term insurance coverage, those two things specifically disability are absolutely critical for physicians. So highly encourage you to reach out to Larry May can do so by going to Dr. Podcast network.com/ Larry Keller. Again, that's a little link in the description of the show. You're listening to us in right now, and we're going to hear the disclaimer. We appreciate you guys. Thank you so much. All right. Take care, everyone.

My dad, Dr. Jimmy Turner is a practicing anesthesiologist. Mr. Amen is a fee only financial planner. You should know that this show is not personalized financial advice free. In fact, the show is only for your general education and entertainment purposes. So keep listening to learn how to become a three-year self angel girl or go find a great fee. Only financial planner like Mr. And Mitch create a personalized financial plan for you.